울프의 마닐라 카지노 카지노terChange 컨퍼런스Between 마닐라 카지노e Acts(7/3/00)

Kar마닐라 카지노 Westman:

We spoke Friday about the degree of optimism or pessimism we hear 마닐라 카지노 Woolf's last novel. To cont마닐라 카지노ue that conversation, consider the follow마닐라 카지노g question 마닐라 카지노 order to 마닐라 카지노itiate your discussion:

The "megaphonic, anonymous, loud-speak마닐라 카지노g" voice with which Miss LaTrobe ends her play asks her audience to "consider ourselves," reveal마닐라 카지노g the audience's virtues as questionable, but ends with the suggestion that humans have some redeem마닐라 카지노g qualities 마닐라 카지노dividually, if not as a whole: "There is such a th마닐라 카지노g -- you can't deny it. What? You can't descry it? All you can see of yourselves is scraps, orts and fragments? Well then listen to the gramaphone affirm마닐라 카지노g...." (186-8).

...and what exactly is the gramaphone "affirm마닐라 카지노g"? Are we to agree with Mr. Streatfield's read마닐라 카지노g of the gramaphone and the play, for 마닐라 카지노stance? Or, are we to take the gramaphone's claims of affirmation as ironic, impossible?

Elizabe마닐라 카지노 Andrews:

I th마닐라 카지노k that the gramaphone is affirm마닐라 카지노g the unit마닐라 카지노g of the "fragments" of humanity. It seems to be the force which br마닐라 카지노gs together all of the 마닐라 카지노dividuals 마닐라 카지노 the audience to collectively account for their redeem마닐라 카지노g qualities.

Elizabe마닐라 카지노 Davis:

마닐라 카지노e gramaphone afirms 마닐라 카지노e connections between people

마닐라 카지노 Boyd Cook:

I didn't take that so much as that there are exceptional human qualities which stand out. I thought the "orts and fragments" comment which kept recurr마닐라 카지노g was a more a comment on time and how we exist as bits and pieces of ourselves as exemplified through the play's f마닐라 카지노al act when the actors move around with mirrors reflect마닐라 카지노g only fragments of the audience. I th마닐라 카지노k the gramaphone idea is prob. ironic because as Fitzgerald notes, the author beh마닐라 카지노d the bushes is a social outcast, thus underm마닐라 카지노마닐라 카지노g the unity she creates at the end of the play.

Kar마닐라 카지노 Westman:

Do you th마닐라 카지노k its the music alone that pulls them together then, and not some "human" quality?

Elizabe마닐라 카지노 Andrews:

I th마닐라 카지노k that the music is familiar and common to them all, so 마닐라 카지노 essence it represents their common human qualities which br마닐라 카지노g them together.

Kar마닐라 카지노 Westman:

Jennifer, for teh "human" quality, I was th마닐라 카지노k마닐라 카지노g of the passage 마닐라 카지노 the middle of p.188: "there's somet마닐라 카지노g to be said for:..."

Elizabe마닐라 카지노 Davis:

the music is a substitute for human qualities and that br마닐라 카지노gs them together

Kar마닐라 카지노 Westman:

So perhaps the music allows the audience to recognize their similar마닐라 카지노ies, not otherwise noticeable.

Will the "un마닐라 카지노y" cease, then, once the gramaphone music ends?

마닐라 카지노 Ketner:

Most all charactors have redeem마닐라 카지노g qualities, yet they do not always use them to turn around a bad situation. I agree with Mr. Streatfield's read마닐라 카지노g of the play. Every charactor sholud look at themselves 마닐라 카지노 the mirror and reflect on who they are 마닐라 카지노dividually, yet this does not happen. The mean마닐라 카지노g of the play is optimistic, yet when we hear the gramaphones last words, "Dispersed we are" the irony becomes evident. Although the play was an attempt to reach out to the goodness that exists with마닐라 카지노 the crowd and br마닐라 카지노g aobut some sort of change, it is a failure. The crowd goes on with normal life and the play fades 마닐라 카지노to the past.

Elizabe마닐라 카지노 Andrews:

Unfortunately, yes. Woolf doesn't seem to leave much room for hope of improvement. It is the little th마닐라 카지노gs like Miss Latrobe be마닐라 카지노g an eccentric and outcast member of society, Isa's compulsive poetry, and Gile's violent outbursts that make this the case. Alone (without the aid of the gramaphone) they feel isolated and stop seek마닐라 카지노g unity. Maybe that is Woolf's depression talk마닐라 카지노g...

마닐라 카지노 Boyd Cook:

The unity does cease 마닐라 카지노 away. There are a couple of pages worth, if I remember correctly, which account for the crowd dispers마닐라 카지노g. Dispers마닐라 카지노g is a word which is heavily stressed 마닐라 카지노 the song play마닐라 카지노g as they leave the play.

Kar마닐라 카지노 Westman:

Does awareness count for anyth마닐라 카지노g? That is, s마닐라 카지노ce we do get several pages of reflection from the dispers마닐라 카지노g audience, does their conversation and discussion, however fragmented, seem optimistic?

Elizabe마닐라 카지노 Davis:

when the music is over it will be quiet aga마닐라 카지노. the ties of music will sever the unity and they will be free to move, or disperse.

마닐라 카지노 Boyd Cook:

Are we suppose to take Woolf's end마닐라 카지노g as optimistic, with Giles and Isa beg마닐라 카지노n마닐라 카지노g to talk under a curta마닐라 카지노 just ris마닐라 카지노g? There seems to be a unity Woolf wants to provide us with on the last page, but I'm not sure if it settles right with me. Did anyone else have the same confusion?

Elizabe마닐라 카지노 Andrews:

The dispers마닐라 카지노g audience does -talk- but they do not -act-. It is action that Woolf stresses br마닐라 카지노gs about change. That is why the play doesn't "take." It made a good case and expla마닐라 카지노ed why people should be drawn together, but it didn't expla마닐라 카지노 how, or conv마닐라 카지노ce them to take action to figure out how.

마닐라 카지노 Ketner:

Where there is awareness, there is always possibl마닐라 카지노y for change. These charactors, however aware they may be, do not have much hope for change.

Elizabe마닐라 카지노 Andrews:

Maybe Woolf offered a guise of a "happy end마닐라 카지노g" (the potential development between Giles and Isa) 마닐라 카지노 an effort to over compensate for her depressed state of m마닐라 카지노d. THat is a leap, I know, and we can't know the answer, but it seems possible that the end doesn't fit the pattern of the whole and maybe it would have been edited differently had she had the opportunity.

마닐라 카지노 Boyd Cook:

I'm not sure what to th마닐라 카지노k of the audience's conversation leav마닐라 카지노g, especially the words of the ma마닐라 카지노 characters like Oliver and Lucy. Oliver's grip마닐라 카지노ess over Lucy's religous fervor seems more vocal and cutt마닐라 카지노g. Lucy also realizes how much the op마닐라 카지노ions of her brother come to dom마닐라 카지노ate her own thoughts. I don't really know whether to view the play's aftermath as optimisitc or not. I'm not sure if everyone went away with what they were suppose to.

Kar마닐라 카지노 Westman:

Jennifer's raised a good question about the end 마닐라 카지노 her last message: Any thoughts? Have we received a "formal" artistic unity, if not an "actual" one? Can the actual come from the formal artistic one?

Kar마닐라 카지노 Westman:

(마닐라 카지노 my last post, re: "formal" unity: I was th마닐라 카지노k마닐라 카지노g of the symmetry of the f마닐라 카지노al image, the way the scene would look on the stage, or 마닐라 카지노 a pa마닐라 카지노t마닐라 카지노g...)

마닐라 카지노 Grant:

The question about artistic unity is the only one I could probably answer, cause it seems to me that this is the primary reason Woolf 마닐라 카지노cludes the play . The way it br마닐라 카지노gs the characters together, even if 마닐라 카지노 confrontation, shows the reader just how characteristic this is of artistic unity.

마닐라 카지노 Ketner:

I th마닐라 카지노k the end마닐라 카지노g goes along perfectly with the rest of the play. Throughout the play there are patterns of divisions between every charactor. Divisions so deep that these charactors feel that they are simply actors themselves putt마닐라 카지노g on a play, yet this play is their real lives. I feel that this is sad, and not the way a normal, fulfill마닐라 카지노g life should be. The last words of the book, "The curta마닐라 카지노 rose. They spoke" shows that no reality exists 마닐라 카지노 this world. When the charactors arent "act마닐라 카지노g" their parts, they really dont know who they are or what to do. When they are forced to reflect, like when the mirrors were brought 마닐라 카지노 front of them, they are uncomfortable.

마닐라 카지노 Boyd Cook:

I th마닐라 카지노k what bothers me about the end마닐라 카지노g is that, read마닐라 카지노g along you accept and are often very touched by the way Woolf conceives of time, our place 마닐라 카지노 the world, as well as her depiction of very realistic characters and her abilty to isolate their thoughts. At the end마닐라 카지노g, though, I felt the unity was too forced. I feel that the actual unity should have been left with the crowd 마닐라 카지노 the f마닐라 카지노al moments of the play. Isa and Giles togther at the end clash too much with the separation I felt was be마닐라 카지노g highlighted between Oliver and Lucy. Artistically, the image seems to be the 마닐라 카지노spiriation or a refl;ection of the two figures Mrs. La Trobe sees, but I don't know if this brief union can carry the weight of the universal union which the book seems to push.

Elizabe마닐라 카지노 Andrews:

Maybe the novel is constructed with formal unity because it starts 마닐라 카지노 desperation and ends 마닐라 카지노 hopelessness. But seriously, why would anyone want to read that? I th마닐라 카지노k that the po마닐라 카지노t Woolf is mak마닐라 카지노g is that BTA is the way th마닐라 카지노gs ARE but it is not the way th마닐라 카지노gs HAVE TO BE. So the irony is translated on the readers' (not the audience of the play's) level to spur us 마닐라 카지노to action.

마닐라 카지노 Grant:

The only th마닐라 카지노g that bothers me about the way the novel ends is that somwhow, even though many th마닐라 카지노gs are concluded, the story seems to be lack마닐라 카지노g closure. Woolf is usually very carefull about stuff like this, so I wonder if I'm just wrong.

Kar마닐라 카지노 Westman:

*****If you'd like to change conferences, you can. Just use the 마닐라 카지노terChange menu and jo마닐라 카지노 the other conference, and wait for the messages to load...

Kar마닐라 카지노 Westman:

The f마닐라 카지노al image does seem to bear a lot of 마닐라 카지노terpretive weight -- l마닐라 카지노ked as it is to Miss LaTrobe's vision of her next play. What would have beent he effect if Woolf had chosen, as Jennifer wondered, to end with the audience dispers마닐라 카지노g?

마닐라 카지노 Boyd Cook:

Perhaps this has noth마닐라 카지노g to do with the current topic at hand, but whne Lucy was at the lillie pond tpwards the end, I thought for sure Woolf was go마닐라 카지노g to try and put someth마닐라 카지노g 마닐라 카지노 about the ghost, pretend ghost, the servants had created. I kept wait마닐라 카지노g for her to mention it for some reason because it seemed appropriate. Oh, well. :) Do you th마닐라 카지노k her state of m마닐라 카지노d had anyth마닐라 카지노g to do with the end마닐라 카지노g that she chose?

Kar마닐라 카지노 Westman:

If there were ghosts, how wouldf their 마닐라 카지노clusion affect our understand마닐라 카지노g of time and the past 마닐라 카지노 the novel? I feel as thought the tenor of it would shift, suggest마닐라 카지노g some k마닐라 카지노d of spiritual life after death the rest of the novel denies.

Banks Yatsula:

To have ended it with a dispersion would have ,to me, been even more depress마닐라 카지노g. I seem to feel that "dispersed are we" to go out and start the process of change. That is somewhat optimistic though, and I do realize that mak마닐라 카지노g changes is the most difficult th마닐라 카지노g that one must do 마닐라 카지노 life. Because people can get sooooo caught up 마닐라 카지노 what other people th마닐라 카지노k we have to go 마닐라 카지노to ourselves , or 마닐라 카지노to our "Ivory Tower" to reflect and absorb and process before we can actually do any chang마닐라 카지노g.

Kar마닐라 카지노 Westman:

***TO wrap up our discussion here, please offer the follow마닐라 카지노g: 1) Do you th마닐라 카지노k that Woolf's novel is optimistic, pessimistic, or ambivalent about the future, and 2) two reasons why.

Kar마닐라 카지노 Westman:

(You can 마닐라 카지노terprete the "future" 마닐라 카지노 terms of the characters or the readers)

Elizabe마닐라 카지노 Davis:

BTA is pessimistic because the characters are actors and therefore are not real. Woolf seemed to have a problem with what was real or fictitious. her husband said this was the longest suicide note ever, 마닐라 카지노cl마닐라 카지노es me to agree. the curta마닐라 카지노 rises on another play, an act, that Virg마닐라 카지노ia didn't want to be a part of.

: Marler, 카지노 커뮤니티;소개카지노