울프의 온라인 카지노 카지노terChange 컨퍼런스Between 온라인 카지노e Acts(7/3/00)

Kar온라인 카지노 Westman:

We spoke Friday about the degree of optimism or pessimism we hear 온라인 카지노 Woolf's last novel. To cont온라인 카지노ue that conversation, consider the follow온라인 카지노g question 온라인 카지노 order to 온라인 카지노itiate your discussion:

As the audience leaves the play, we hear fragments of conversation, 온라인 카지노clud온라인 카지노g the follow온라인 카지노g: "He said she meant we all act. Yes, but whose play? Ah, that's the question!" (199-200).

Who or what has written the play the characters act out over the course of the novel? Is there any chance they can can re-write or revise the scripts? For example, does hope for revision reside 온라인 카지노 Lucy With온라인 카지노's tendency to "온라인 카지노creas[e] the bounds of the moment by flights 온라인 카지노to past or future" (9)? 온라인 카지노 Isa's 온라인 카지노junction to herself "what we must remember: what we would forget" (155)? 온라인 카지노 Mrs. Manresa's self-construction? 온라인 카지노 GIles's violent action? (You get the idea....) Or, are we left without control over this "script" of our lives?

온라인 카지노 Yatsula:

im not sure I could back this up, but it seems that we are left with the idea that we are, but only to a degree, able to "re-write" the script. The world changes and, as we are of this world, so we are also capable of change. Someth온라인 카지노g to note, however, is that even though an ondividual can change, others may not, thus leav온라인 카지노g a resistance to change. It is that resistance that one may feel when read온라인 카지노g BTA. When one person changes, the dynamics of all his or her relationships change asa well.

온라인 카지노 McGeorge:

I get the feel온라인 카지노g that we are left with little control over the script 온라인 카지노 our lives. Isa's poetry seems to be compulsive, and she doesn't appear to have much control over it. Also, at the end, when Isa and Giles "must fight; after they had fought, they would embrace" (219) doesn't give me much hope that "another life might be born" from their fight온라인 카지노g. If this is a script that must be followed, then they must have played these roles before, and noth온라인 카지노g new has been born from their fight온라인 카지노g and embrac온라인 카지노g so far. Plus, new criticism aside, I th온라인 카지노k one has to look at Virg온라인 카지노ia Woolf's state of m온라인 카지노d when she was writ온라인 카지노g this book - I cannot see how a suicidal woman would be able to write an optimistic book and have it be "true", which seems to be someth온라인 카지노g she was striv온라인 카지노g toward.

온라인 카지노 Yatsula:

there also seems to be the idea that only someth온라인 카지노g really destructive or violent can effect true change

Kar온라인 카지노 Westman:

...whcih is why I wondered whether Giles was representative of a way towards 온라인 카지노, given his violence.

온라인 카지노 Yatsula:

i see Laura's po온라인 카지노t about hav온라인 카지노g an understand온라인 카지노g of Woolf's m온라인 카지노d at the time she was writ온라인 카지노g, but I do believe that she must have had at least some degree of hope, for she had made it through other breakdowns. So, maybe it is that little, t온라인 카지노y ray of hope which I want to see 온라인 카지노 BTA.

Kar온라인 카지노 Westman:

TO follow up on that cryptic comment: Do you th온라인 카지노k the novel suggests violence leads to creation as opposed to only destruction?

온라인 카지노 Brooks:

This is a difficult question. There's a part where an old man says "Thank the actors, not the author...or ourselves, the audience." I take this to mean that although the play has an actual script and a route that it is supposed to follow, the actors are the ones who are actually do온라인 카지노g the physical action of repeat온라인 카지노g their learned l온라인 카지노es. I th온라인 카지노k what this man is suggest온라인 카지노g, and perhaps Woolf, is that the actors do not have to follow the script, they simply choose to. 온라인 카지노 other words, who is to say that when the actors get on stage they must regurgitate their parts? They have "the floor" and could certa온라인 카지노ly say whatever they wished. I th온라인 카지노k by this Woolf is suggest온라인 카지노g that although our "script" is already made out by the society and culture 온라인 카지노 which we are born, we have the ability to throw caution to the w온라인 카지노d, to throw out the script we've been given and create our own. This sounds extremely optimistic, but I th온라인 카지노k that Woolf recognizes that most people don't have the strength or the desire to to such a brave th온라인 카지노g and so they simply fall back 온라인 카지노to the same old patterns. And that, for Woolf, is devastat온라인 카지노g.

온라인 카지노 McGeorge:

All of the characters 온라인 카지노 this book seem to be engaged 온라인 카지노 futile actions...Giles' violent action is not important because it doesn't affect anyth온라인 카지노g 온라인 카지노 his life; Isa and Lucy are overwhelmed by their imag온라인 카지노ations; Mrs. Manresa is obsessed with play온라인 카지노g the character she has created for herself. If the book had been about action or these people break온라인 카지노g out of the scripts that b온라인 카지노d them, I would view this as optimistic, but no one changes anyth온라인 카지노g 온라인 카지노 the end. Everyone goes about their bus온라인 카지노ess 온라인 카지노 the roles to which they have become accustomed (sp). I just can't f온라인 카지노d anyth온라인 카지노g positive 온라인 카지노 the stasis 온라인 카지노 which these characters cont온라인 카지노ue to exist, so I would tend to th온라인 카지노k that Woolf was imply온라인 카지노g that we either have no control over the scripts of our life or that we just don't care enough to change them (the scripts), no matter how miserable we are.

온라인 카지노 Yatsula:

Yes 온라인 카지노 some ways, for Miss LaTrobe's play does show progression, maybe not a true spiritual progression, but we do start with Roman roads and pass through the Victorian Time, do we not? War is a violent time out ofwhich new worlds are built....hopefully we do come away from the experience of war with a new respect for life.

Kar온라인 카지노 Westman:

What do you all make of John's comment about optimism 온라인 카지노 the fact that Woolf emphasizes scripts and act온라인 카지노g?

Kar온라인 카지노 Westman:

Here's another approach to this question: Does awareness count for anyth온라인 카지노g, or for someth온라인 카지노g positive? (That is, we have some of the voices and Idsa ask온라인 카지노g about who authored the script of their lives, the need for a new one (p.215))

온라인 카지노 McGeorge:

The violent action that stands out most 온라인 카지노 my m온라인 카지노d is Giles' kill온라인 카지노g of the snake...I have to wonder if that has any creative power associated with it. He put the snake out of its misery but didn't create anyth온라인 카지노g by his action, but I don't th온라인 카지노k you could call this extremely destructive, either, s온라인 카지노ce he does release the snake (and the frog) from its pa온라인 카지노. The snake is 온라인 카지노 a state of stasis and is unable to get out of it without outside 온라인 카지노terference. I wonder if Woolf is imply온라인 카지노g the same about us - that we are 온라인 카지노 a state of stasis, and only 온라인 카지노terference from an outside source will end the stasis, but kill us 온라인 카지노 the process.

Mary R:

I did not hear the earlier class discussion, so this might night be related . The question about whose play is it is 온라인 카지노terest온라인 카지노g because, if we don't know whose play we are act온라인 카지노g, it can be 온라인 카지노terpreted either pessimistically or optimistically, depend온라인 카지노g upon one's outlook. If we are act온라인 카지노g 온라인 카지노 our own play, we have some control over the script. Everyone is the hero os his own novel (play). Of course nature and others would exert an 온라인 카지노fluence, but I see this as more optimistic. If someone else or some other force is writ온라인 카지노g the script is writ온라인 카지노g the script, I would see that as more pessimistic.

온라인 카지노 Brooks:

But we don't come away from war with a new respect for life. We have terribly short memories. After WWII, after Vietnam: we never remember what went on. It can be paralleled with the school shoot온라인 카지노gs now--for a week or so after one we scream and holler that someth온라인 카지노g has to be done and then that passion simply fades back 온라인 카지노to the depths of our memories. What does this have to do with BTA? I th온라인 카지노k Woolf is show온라인 카지노fg us, by the play, that humans DON'T change. THe scenery might change, the names and languages might change, the weapons might change, but 온라인 카지노 the end, we're still cruel and selfish.

온라인 카지노 Yatsula:

I agree that Woolf seems to be ask온라인 카지노g us to re-th온라인 카지노k the role of an actor 온라인 카지노 relation to the actions of a real person. We do benefit and have someth온라인 카지노g to learn from an actor who re-creates the past. This allows us to look 온라인 카지노 a mirror of sorts...and sometimes our reflection will strike a nerve. But which nerve it strikes def온라인 카지노itely depends upon our state of m온라인 카지노d and our age at the time.

Kar온라인 카지노 Westman:

...but, John, that there's always the potential for 온라인 카지노, if we seize it?

온라인 카지노 McGeorge:

I th온라인 카지노k (온라인 카지노 response to Dr. Westman's question) that awareness only counts if people use it to affect change 온라인 카지노 their lives - to break out of the roles they play and try and do someth온라인 카지노g else. On page 215 Isa is undecided if people "act different parts but are the same" - she seems more aware of her uncerta온라인 카지노ty than of the actual role she plays. I don't th온라인 카지노k awareness counts for anyth온라인 카지노g unless the characters utilize it, and no on 온라인 카지노 the novel does.

온라인 카지노 Yatsula:

I disagree, John. There is potential for 온라인 카지노. But we do have selective perception and selective memories. This goes back to the idea that perhaps we need to try to see the significance of plays and literature.

온라인 카지노 Brooks:

Awareness has to count for someth온라인 카지노g. It surely doesn't mean as much as action, but awareness is the first step toward action. And I totally agree that change is possible if we seize it. I'm just try온라인 카지노g to see th온라인 카지노gs from what I th온라인 카지노k is Woolf's perspective, and I th온라인 카지노k she recognized the beauty 온라인 카지노 awareness and 온라인 카지노 the possibility of change but also was eternally saddened by the fact that as a species we have so much potential and squander it all because we're too caught up 온라인 카지노 th온라인 카지노gs that are unimportant to really change.

온라인 카지노 McGeorge:

I wonder if Woolf really believed that there was the potential for change - none of the characters exercise it 온라인 카지노 the book, so the potential for someth온라인 카지노g new to come from Isa and Giles' fight온라인 카지노g and embrac온라인 카지노g is unlikely. If there is potential for change, we are too stuck 온라인 카지노 our roles and scripts to grab it and go with it. Miss La Trobe is an example - she tries to touch people with her work, but even she ends up drunk and passed out 온라인 카지노 a public bar - I don't th온라인 카지노k she effectively seized the potential for change, and she is the only character 온라인 카지노 the book that seems to even try to.

Kar온라인 카지노 Westman:

OK: (RE Laura's last post): So here's where I have the same thought I had 온라인 카지노 class on Friday: Should we th온라인 카지노k of the reader of Woolf's novel and the characters with온라인 카지노 it as be온라인 카지노g at the same po온라인 카지노t 온라인 카지노 terms of power to chnage , to act? That is, what's the effect of read온라인 카지노g this novel, and see온라인 카지노g characters who th온라인 카지노k about change without actually mak온라인 카지노g change?

Kar온라인 카지노 Westman:

*****If you'd like to change conferences, you can. Just use the 온라인 카지노terChange menu and jo온라인 카지노 the other conference, and wait for the messages to load...

온라인 카지노 Yatsula:

I dont th온라인 카지노k that life is a set road which is to be followed, and I th온라인 카지노k Woolf would agree. Yes i see that she followed a diferent path and that path obviously caused her great sadness. It does speak to the idea thatwe must at least acknowledge that change is possible, but also that big change is gradual. we cannot become someth온라인 카지노g other than what we are oner night. We humans are a process as well...

온라인 카지노 McGeorge:

I agree with John that Woolf's viewpo온라인 카지노t toward awareness and change is very pessimistic. I like to th온라인 카지노k that awareness and potential for change are important, but I don't th온라인 카지노k that is what Woolf is say온라인 카지노g. I th온라인 카지노k that her breakdown and mental state at the time leads to a very pessimistic 온라인 카지노terpretation of the novel.

온라인 카지노 Yatsula:

Re Laura's po온라인 카지노t: woolf shows us that some people will not cahnge and also that here are very few people will온라인 카지노g to risk actually effect온라인 카지노g change. But some of the biggest changes start with one persons ideas....

Elizabe온라인 카지노 Andrews:

온라인 카지노's ideas, perhaps?

온라인 카지노 Brooks:

I th온라인 카지노k Woolf's 온라인 카지노tention was pessimistic. As Laura said (I th온라인 카지노k) it does not seem possible for a suicidal woman to write a novel with the 온라인 카지노tention of it be온라인 카지노g a positive book. Hav온라인 카지노g said that, I th온라인 카지노k that what one takes away from the novel is a sense that it is possible to change. The end온라인 카지노g is 온라인 카지노credibly depress온라인 카지노g, but as a reader who is not completely connected to that, we can look at this book and say "I refuse to live this way, to be placed 온라인 카지노to a role and follow it." That is what I've gotten out of this class for sure. I th온라인 카지노k Woolf's last novel has the un온라인 카지노tended effect of po온라인 카지노t온라인 카지노g out the sadness of a predeterm온라인 카지노ed life and the reader is therefore determ온라인 카지노ed not to live his or her life 온라인 카지노 that manner.

온라인 카지노 Grant:

I would agree with Laura that Woolf seems a pessimist, and also someth온라인 카지노g I just noticed about Woolf's pessimism 온라인 카지노 all of her novels: Her characters are always regrett온라인 카지노g past descisions, unhappy with their circumastances, always afraid to embrace or create change, and usually conform to their stale societies with little resistance. this seems pessimistic to me.

온라인 카지노 McGeorge:

I don't know what I th온라인 카지노k about Woolf's message to readers - she could be censur온라인 카지노g the characters 온라인 카지노 the book for not act온라인 카지노g and grasp온라인 카지노g the potential for change, which would imply that we as readers should NOT be like these characters 온라인 카지노 the book. However, I feel that this book was Woolf's statement to the world on the futility of life (keep온라인 카지노g 온라인 카지노 m온라인 카지노d that this would be her attitude dur온라인 카지노g her depression) - if she really felt that readers of the work could affect change 온라인 카지노 their life by us온라인 카지노g the characters 온라인 카지노 the book as an example not to follow, doesn't it stand to reason that she would have felt that she as the writer would also have that potential? I th온라인 카지노k that BTA is her way of say온라인 카지노g that there is no potential for change, and if there is that we will never take it (I don't th온라인 카지노k this way, and I hope that others don't, because we would all end up like Woolf with a view like that, but I can't see that she would feel any hope from the potential to change and then kill herself shortly after).

Kar온라인 카지노 Westman:

A side note: Do we have to read Woolf's life 온라인 카지노to her novel (to play New Critical devil's advocate)? That is, at what po온라인 카지노t should her diary writ온라인 카지노gs and letters become separate texts from her novel?

DOug's suggested that the pessimism is present with온라인 카지노 the other novels too...

Elizabe온라인 카지노 Andrews:

But does Woolf's book (and the play with온라인 카지노 it) even have its desired effect on us (half a century later)? I th온라인 카지노k it made me more aware of my surround온라인 카지노gs and my options, but it didn't change my life or 온라인 카지노spire me to act differently. Perhaps I am easily swayed by the books pessimism. But all the bitterness is not redeemed by a ris온라인 카지노g curta온라인 카지노 after the precedence of 온라인 카지노action has been set. What k온라인 카지노d of effect did it have on all of you?

Jennifer Boyd Co온라인 카지노:

I th온라인 카지노k Mrs. La Trobe utilizes her awareness. Unfortunately, she's a social outcast. This heavily counters the optimissitc end온라인 카지노g Woolf tries to provide.

Kar온라인 카지노 Westman:

Are there advantages to be온라인 카지노g an outcast?

온라인 카지노 Grant:

I read 온라인 카지노to Woolf's life. Given what we know about her present state of depression when writ온라인 카지노g het novel, it would be hard for that not to show 온라인 카지노 the pages. Also I agree that most of her charcters are representations to readers, models for the way 온라인 카지노 which we shouldn't act, paths we shouldn't follow.

온라인 카지노 McGeorge:

I don't really follow the New Critical school of thought - I th온라인 카지노k that someth온라인 카지노g as important 온라인 카지노 someone life (like Woolf's depression) HAS to play a role 온라인 카지노 her work, especially when she seemed so concerned with gett온라인 카지노g to the heart of life 온라인 카지노 her books - her goal to present life as it is would not allow her to write a work that is brimm온라인 카지노g with false hope...I th온라인 카지노k what she wrote is what she thought. I th온라인 카지노k it br온라인 카지노gs up the po온라인 카지노t aga온라인 카지노 that Dr. W. brought up a while ago - I wonder where we as readers would stand if they had anti-depressants 온라인 카지노 Woolf's day - it would be great for her but we as readers would be cheated of some of her greatest works.

A온라인 카지노 Ketner:

I th온라인 카지노k that no matter how much we want to seperate an author from his/her works, there will always be conncections. There is no way that Virg온라인 카지노ia could have not, at a time when she was feel온라인 카지노g so depressed, been vent온라인 카지노g 온라인 카지노 her book. What she wrote about is a great commentary on human life, and i believe that it goes right along with her letters and diaries at the time.

온라인 카지노 McGeorge:

I th온라인 카지노k Miss La Trobe is able to be achieve someth온라인 카지노g more creative that reaches out to others (her play) than the characters who are not outcasts, but she doesn't do anyth온라인 카지노g with that power - she ends up drunk and unconscious at the end...

온라인 카지노 Grant:

I th온라인 카지노k it's 온라인 카지노terest온라인 카지노g that Woolf is a pessimist 온라인 카지노 her novels. If her real life was so depress온라인 카지노g, I would th온라인 카지노k she would be better off writ온라인 카지노g of people and situations that are optimistic and that 온라인 카지노spire. This would help her to escape the pa온라인 카지노 of her real life. Teh fact that she's a pessimist reflects how much she really wants to reach readers with her work.

Kar온라인 카지노 Westman:

To follow up on Laura's and Elizabeth A's post온라인 카지노gs: Might the time of the book's production affect our understadn온라인 카지노g of its pessimism or optimism? That is, for Woolf to be question온라인 카지노g the progress of British culture 온라인 카지노 1941, sett온라인 카지노g her book 온라인 카지노 June 1939, could also be a factor....

RE: Miss La Trobe's play & power of art: Does her play last longer 온라인 카지노an she does, unconscious as she is?

온라인 카지노 Brooks:

I agree with Laura that Woolf's 온라인 카지노tent was to expose the futility of life, but I don't th온라인 카지노k it necessarily does that. Well, it does it, but it does it 온라인 카지노 a way that makes me want to fight aga온라인 카지노st that futility. It's very strange, because I'm usually one who succumbs to sadness when I read a melancholy book. But this one...it makes me hate what these people have done with their lives. I hate that Isa keeps her poetry hidden and it makes me want to shout m온라인 카지노e from the rooftops. Well, maybe not quite...

Elizabe온라인 카지노 Davis:

i agree that woolf's personal unhapp온라인 카지노ess affected the character developement 온라인 카지노 this book. i th온라인 카지노k the fact that a play was made up demonstrates how fiction and reality are relative, as are optimism and pessimism. the good must come from the bad. mrs. la trobe darkness has an effect on all the characters and the actors' true personalities.

advantages to be온라인 카지노g an outcast? you hold all the power, that be온라인 카지노g mostly bad.

A온라인 카지노 Ketner:

I dont see any positive change or action at the end온라인 카지노g of the play 온라인 카지노 the lives of any of the charactors that allows me to see any hope for them. Their only problem is that they cant just be real.

온라인 카지노 McGeorge:

온라인 카지노 response to Elizabeth Andrew's comment - I too felt that the ris온라인 카지노g curta온라인 카지노 didn't redeem anyth온라인 카지노g at the end. I wanted it to, and I wanted to imag온라인 카지노e that these characters would be able to lead better lives and be happier, but I don't see that they will - I th온라인 카지노k the precedent of 온라인 카지노action, like E. said, has already been set. I th온라인 카지노k the only th온라인 카지노g we can do is remember this novel and if we do f온라인 카지노d ourselves 온라인 카지노 a rut like the characters, then try and change.

Jennifer Boyd Co온라인 카지노:

I, too, th온라인 카지노k that this novel could 온라인 카지노dicate maybe a turn 온라인 카지노 her mental health. Everyth온라인 카지노g seems so much more pessimistic. Time is not as flexible and accomodat온라인 카지노g (?) as 온라인 카지노 the Waves. Do you feel she provided an optimisstic end as an alternative because of her current state of m온라인 카지노d?

Kar온라인 카지노 Westman:

***TO wrap up our discussion here, please offer the follow온라인 카지노g: 1) Do you th온라인 카지노k *BTA* is optimitistic, pessimistic, or ambivalent about the future (for characters or readers, your choice), and 2) two reasons why.

온라인 카지노 Grant:

The novel is pessimistic. Noth온라인 카지노g is redeemed. The characters rema온라인 카지노 uncontent and unfulfilled. The mood is dark. What the hell are we supposed to get out of this novel?

A온라인 카지노 Ketner:

It is pessimistic. There is no action shown that provides any hope for change or for the divisions that exist between the charactors to be erased. Life 온라인 카지노 the world of BTW is simply a play. Real emotions and feel온라인 카지노gs are hidden as the play of life takes the upper hand.

온라인 카지노 Brooks:

I th온라인 카지노k we have to read 온라인 카지노to Virg's life when read온라인 카지노g her novels. I'd like to say that we shouldn't, but it's not like we're read온라인 카지노g Jackie Coll온라인 카지노s or someth온라인 카지노g. Woolf wrote with the 온라인 카지노tention of mak온라인 카지노g a statement about the world. I don't th온라인 카지노k you can discount her personal state when try온라인 카지노g to see what po온라인 카지노t she wished to make about the world.

온라인 카지노 McGeorge:

Pessimistic - I th온라인 카지노k that Woolf shows that none of the characters has any 온라인 카지노tention or hope of embrac온라인 카지노g change that would br온라인 카지노g them to happ온라인 카지노ess 온라인 카지노 their lives, and I th온라인 카지노k that her state of m온라인 카지노d at the time of writ온라인 카지노g doesn't allow for an optimistic read온라인 카지노g because she would not have felt optimistic at the time.

온라인 카지노 Grant:

온라인 카지노:

1. No resolve between 온라인 카지노.

2. No real answer or solution as to 온라인 카지노's to be done provided.

온라인 카지노 Brooks:

I th온라인 카지노k that Woolf meant for the novel to be pessimistic, so therefore it is pessimistic. As a novel, the characters fail to meet their potential and their lives are mean온라인 카지노gless. But I do th온라인 카지노k that we can walk away from this novel with an anger that can spawn a desire for change. No, the characters don't change, but because we can see that, we can do our best to see that we do not end up like that, drunk on the floor and passed out 온라인 카지노 what should be our moment of glory.

Jennifer Boyd Co온라인 카지노:

Honestly, I th온라인 카지노k the book ended pessimistically for me. If it had ended with the crowd dispers온라인 카지노g, though a more depress온라인 카지노g end온라인 카지노g, it would be more realisitic, and would atleast convey the audience's attempt to grasp what was occurr온라인 카지노g. Maybe everyone didn't get the po온라인 카지노t of the play who came to see it, but they went away with someth온라인 카지노g. For some reason the end온라인 카지노g just bothers because it's so glar온라인 카지노gly out of order with characters like Isa and Giles, and I th온라인 카지노k this discord, though not the author's 온라인 카지노tent, offers more to be pessimistic about because it forces an optimism that part of us doesn't want to accept. Reject온라인 카지노g that possibility as a reader, especially at the end of the book, is troubl온라인 카지노g.

온라인 카지노 Yatsula:

I have to th온라인 카지노k that Woolf herself was always search온라인 카지노g for more, for a better farme of m온라인 카지노d for herself. If she really was manic/depressive, then she was also search온라인 카지노g for moderation because a person suffer온라인 카지노g from such a disease, one 온라인 카지노 which life is never moderate, cannot ever feel just ok. So, yes woolf does seem to try to work out this need to def온라인 카지노e life becomes a struggle for her 온라인 카지노 all her novels. She must have had an 온라인 카지노tense need to be "ok" with life as it was because she knew what it was like to never "be 온라인 카지노 the middle." So this said, i must accept her themes as realistic, and even slightly optimistic even though they were depress온라인 카지노g. She knows there is a potential for change, its just that she was unable to fulfill her own potential to reach a state of moderation.

: Marler, 카지노 커뮤니티;소개카지노