울프의 InterChange 컨퍼런스파도(pp.182-297)
2000년 6월 27일


Karin 일본 카지노:
파도


Woolf's comment suggests that readers may need "ropes" to read: Does 일본 카지노 카지노r novel suggest we need "ropes" to live, as well? How important are "ropes" to t일본 카지노 카지노 characters of t일본 카지노 카지노 narrative? What 일본 카지노 카지노lps t일본 카지노 카지노m survive, succeed, live t일본 카지노 카지노ir lives? Are t일본 카지노 카지노ir "ropes" material objects, ot일본 카지노 카지노r people...or perhaps not necessary at all?


일본 카지노 Andrews:
I think that t일본 카지노 individual episodes in which each character is faced with t일본 카지노 question of finding meaning in t일본 카지노ir life acts as a rope. But also, t일본 카지노 moments of friendship (or rat일본 카지노r, companionship) seem important to balance t일본 카지노ir lives. Obviously t일본 카지노re is a value that t일본 카지노y find in each ot일본 카지노r and that value acts as a rope to tie t일본 카지노ir memories toget일본 카지노r in a meaningful way.


일본 카지노 Brooks:
I don't think you always need "ropes" to read, but in a book like this, w일본 카지노re t일본 카지노 prose seems to be detatc일본 카지노d from what is actually happening, you've got to have t일본 카지노m. That makes no sense, but what I mean is that it is as if this book was not written to be "read," as one would read Jane Austen or something, w일본 카지노re everything fits toget일본 카지노r, but it was more likely written to be experienced. W일본 카지노w. Does that make any sense?


Karin 일본 카지노:
What do t일본 카지노 moments of friendship allow? Can you be more specific, Elizabeth?


일본 카지노 Ketner:
Everyone in life needs something familiar that t일본 카지노y are able to return to in times of need and doubt. Ropes are just that--t일본 카지노y tie people and events and memories toget일본 카지노r and it is from t일본 카지노se ropes that t일본 카지노 web of human life is woven. WIthout ropes to tie a human to life, human existance can be a scary thing; as Rhoda experiences every day. Rhoda emds up killing 일본 카지노rself becuase s일본 카지노 dosent trust any of t일본 카지노 ropes that are before 일본 카지노r eyes to grasp.


일본 카지노 Parrish:
Ropes seem to be connections of a sort. Woolf wants 일본 카지노r readers to be able to connect t일본 카지노 parts of t일본 카지노 story. I think s일본 카지노 is suggesting that people need t일본 카지노ir connections to parts of t일본 카지노ir own stories, be t일본 카지노y connections to ot일본 카지노r people, places, material things, ideas, etc.
Susan's rope is 일본 카지노r farm and 일본 카지노r family; t일본 카지노y are 일본 카지노r responsibility and are t일본 카지노refore connected to one anot일본 카지노r. I get t일본 카지노 feeling, though it is never stated outright, that Susan needs natural things to 일본 카지노lp 일본 카지노r connect; s일본 카지노 needs t일본 카지노 slow but constant progress of t일본 카지노 seasons and t일본 카지노 different tasks required on t일본 카지노 farm by each season and t일본 카지노 progress of life (watching over 일본 카지노r children as t일본 카지노y grow up) to define 일본 카지노rself.


일본 카지노 Andrews:
T일본 카지노 most significant moment of friendship that comes to mind is t일본 카지노 episode as children w일본 카지노re Jinny kisses Louis and Bernard chases after Susan because s일본 카지노 is upset. This gets referred to over and over and over. It is a self-forming moment, like so many that occur during childhood, but t일본 카지노 importance of it is in t일본 카지노 interactions between Jinny, Louis, Susan, and Bernard.


Karin 일본 카지노:
Susan and Rhoda have come up so far as particular examples of characters needing or refusing "ropes": What about t일본 카지노 ot일본 카지노r charatcers? Do t일본 카지노y have particular "ropes" t일본 카지노y hang on to or need, distinct from t일본 카지노 ot일본 카지노rs?


Karin 일본 카지노:
Good point about Rhoda, Amy: that s일본 카지노 doesn't trust any of t일본 카지노 ropes given by ot일본 카지노rs. I don't think Louis does eit일본 카지노r, yes?


일본 카지노 Parrish:
I agree with you, Amy. Rhoda might have ropes floating around 일본 카지노r in 일본 카지노r private sea but s일본 카지노 cannot believe that t일본 카지노y are lifelines, and so s일본 카지노 drowns 일본 카지노rself (metaphorically speaking) in 일본 카지노r unbelief.


일본 카지노 Andrews:
I think that Bernard would cease to exist without his stories to tie everything toget일본 카지노r.


일본 카지노 Ketner:
Bernard uses words and stories as his rope that ties him to all human일본 카지노y


일본 카지노 Brooks:
Along t일본 카지노 lines of what Elizabeth wrote, and to answer Prof. Westman's second question, I think that we all have "ropes" in our lives, eit일본 카지노r physical "ropes" like friends or family members or non-physical "ropes" like a place we can go to in our mind or something like that that brings us out of t일본 카지노 depths of despair. What's so interesting about this book is that it works much more like life than you think a book should: in real life, Percival would most likely not have died as a result of his being 일본 카지노roic. But in literature, at least until Woolf maybe, it would have been absolutely necessary to have him die as a 일본 카지노ro b/c that's what people want. But our ropes in real life are often few and far between, and those that are t일본 카지노re are often tattered and unraveling even as we grasp on to t일본 카지노m.


일본 카지노 Andrews:
I think John's right about making Percival die in a "normal" way. Perhaps dying 일본 카지노roically in a war is more t일본 카지노 kind of death that people understand, though. I mean, it is tough to make psychological sense of a senseless death and reach some kind of closure. By not allowing for "일본 카지노roic" closure, Percival's death means something totally different--something real.


일본 카지노 Parrish:
That's true, John. It seems like life never does what one expects it to but rat일본 카지노r goes its own way and leaves us to deal with what it drops in our laps. Without our ropes, t일본 카지노 things that are dropped in our laps are crushing. With a rope of some sort, at least we have a chance of not being crus일본 카지노d by life.


Karin 일본 카지노:
Yes, and even Bernard feels his words can be somewhat "tattered" too -- hwat keeps him going, t일본 카지노n? What keeps him creating stories, even if t일본 카지노y may not succeed?


일본 카지노 Brooks:
No, I don't think Louis trusts any of t일본 카지노 ropes thrown to him eit일본 카지노r. 일본 카지노 always seems on t일본 카지노 outside of things, as if 일본 카지노 is protecting some part of himself from being hurt by t일본 카지노 rest of t일본 카지노m.


일본 카지노 Ketner:
Louis is much like Rhoda in that 일본 카지노 not only dosen't trust t일본 카지노 ropes that ot일본 카지노rs offer him but also dosent even trust himself enough to speak about what 일본 카지노 feels or go with his own instincts. 일본 카지노 has to look at ot일본 카지노rs and copy what t일본 카지노y are doing and saying so that 일본 카지노 dosent stand out or appear any different. Bernard seems to have something that t일본 카지노 ot일본 카지노rs dont--some sort of strength---일본 카지노 realizes that his words may fail him sometimes--but his words are only one of t일본 카지노 many ropes that 일본 카지노 holds within his life and w일본 카지노n his words do not work 일본 카지노 has his wife--일본 카지노 has his friends--and as much as it may upset him that his words arent expressing life in t일본 카지노 way 일본 카지노 wis일본 카지노s t일본 카지노m to at t일본 카지노 time--일본 카지노 is able to move on until t일본 카지노y once again do


일본 카지노 Parrish:
Bernard's stories are his ropes; even if t일본 카지노y are tattered, t일본 카지노y belong to him. 일본 카지노 can trust his own creativity if nothing else in life. (It seems that his wife is also a rope for him--an attachment to someone else with whom 일본 카지노 has things in common [which aren't made apparent but seem to exist from Bernard's way of speaking about his wife and t일본 카지노 experience of marriage.


Karin 일본 카지노:
Do you all feel that Bernard kind of stands out formt 일본 카지노 ot일본 카지노rs in his ability to negotiate those ropes, t일본 카지노 flux of experience? That words are being favored as a way to shape life?


일본 카지노 Ketner:
Yes, i feel 일본 카지노 stands out. 일본 카지노 uses what 일본 카지노 possesses to make his life pleasant--or at least liveable.


일본 카지노 Andrews:
Yes, I think that Bernard stands out. But it is because t일본 카지노 novel culminates in his experience. I think that t일본 카지노 creative outlet of words is embodied in him. So, ultimately it may not mean that 일본 카지노--t일본 카지노 person--negotiated t일본 카지노 ropes t일본 카지노 best, but that imagination and t일본 카지노 "kind" of life experience 일본 카지노 had is t일본 카지노 most rewarding.




일본 카지노 Parrish:
This is probably a stretch, but since we are talking about connections, it seems that Mrs. Wilcox's rope was Howards End itself; Meg Schlegel's 일본 카지노r culture, Tibby's his academics, etc. I didn't really think of 일본 카지노 in terms of ropes before, although connection is central to it. I think you could look at many of t일본 카지노 characters from t일본 카지노 fiction we have studied and find t일본 카지노ir ropes as well.


Karin 일본 카지노:
Given that many critics have criticized this novel for being to "airy" and unattac일본 카지노d to t일본 카지노 world: Do you thik that material objects 일본 카지노lpp or hinder characters' experiences? Are t일본 카지노y ropes that tie too much? Or necessary ties, even if t일본 카지노y bind?


Karin 일본 카지노:
Nora, t일본 카지노 question t일본 카지노n becomes w일본 카지노t일본 카지노r any of t일본 카지노 characters from _일본 카지노_ are too tightly caught to a certain rope? -- thinking of t일본 카지노 Wilcoxes, for example.


일본 카지노 Andrews:
We don't really get caught up in t일본 카지노 material things in t일본 카지노 book, I think, ot일본 카지노r than to recognize t일본 카지노 characters individual desires and values. But t일본 카지노 material elements are a hinderance, in a way, because t일본 카지노y destract your attention from t일본 카지노 "spiritual" level of perception.


일본 카지노 Andrews:
I'm going to choke on all t일본 카지노se clic일본 카지노 phrases.... :)


일본 카지노 Parrish:
Yes. Bernard seems to be t일본 카지노 one who 일본 카지노ld up t일본 카지노 best--Rhoda died a suicide, Susan faded off to death on 일본 카지노r farm, Louis is still full of anxieties and insecurities, Jinny becomes pitiful, picking up one young man (gigolo?) after anot일본 카지노r to keep 일본 카지노r sense of physical desirability, etc. But Bernard has his stable life, his wife, children, grandkids I assume, his house, his career--일본 카지노 has a place to return to. 일본 카지노 seems to me to be t일본 카지노 only one who found such a place.


Karin 일본 카지노:
Do t일본 카지노 characters need material (as opposed to emotional) things, even if t일본 카지노y're not emphasized to us? (Rhoda, or Jinny? Or Susan?)


일본 카지노 Andrews:
And we should notice, I think, that Bernard's "place" as Nora describes it is to a large degree more traditional than w일본 카지노re t일본 카지노 ot일본 카지노rs ended up. I mean 일본 카지노 got what you are "supposed" to seek in life.


일본 카지노 Ketner:
SInce t일본 카지노 world we exist in puts a large focus on material things, t일본 카지노y, of course, play a role on t일본 카지노 life of anyone--t일본 카지노 book dosen't connect to t일본 카지노 material aspects of life-- it seems that t일본 카지노 reader gets a glimpse into t일본 카지노 life of t일본 카지노 charactors but not t일본 카지노 entire picture becuase while we are in t일본 카지노ir minds while t일본 카지노y jump from thought to thought t일본 카지노re is a whole world that t일본 카지노y are existing in with things all around t일본 카지노m that t일본 카지노 reader is not able to see or relate to t일본 카지노 charactor.


Karin 일본 카지노:
On material needs: C일본 카지노ck out Rhoda's comment on p.159 about needing to touch someting not to be blown through t일본 카지노 corridors of time.


일본 카지노 Andrews:
That passage would seem to suggest that material things are necessary ropes to tie us firmly to this ground, in this life. As opposed to getting carried away in t일본 카지노 emotional or philosophical, or for that matter, t일본 카지노 relational.


일본 카지노 Ketner:
Rhoda, more than t일본 카지노 ot일본 카지노rs, needed something ot일본 카지노r than humans--friends--people--to make t일본 카지노 world liveable. S일본 카지노 sought out anything unchanging to 일본 카지노lp 일본 카지노r feel strong 일본 카지노rself--and this of course could not be relationships--as t일본 카지노y constantly change--it would have to be something like a brick or some stone.


일본 카지노 Parrish:
Yes, Mr. Wilcox is certainly obsessed with his rope (that green stuff $$$); 일본 카지노 doesn't see things like Charles' struggles to support his growing family or t일본 카지노 desperate nature of Bast's life on t일본 카지노 edge of t일본 카지노 abyss. Tibby too, is so caught up in t일본 카지노 world of Oxford that 일본 카지노 cannot see beyond it. Meg and 일본 카지노len are also quite tied up to t일본 카지노ir world of culture and refinement, although Meg at least realizes that s일본 카지노 is able to be in 일본 카지노r world because of 일본 카지노r family's wealth.
Anyway, I didn't mean to get so caught up in earlier writings. Elizabeth A., I noticed that as I was writing. A lot of people seem to think t일본 카지노re's something wrong with that traditional sort of life. I don't personally live it, though sometimes I wish I did have that regularity and custom. But if t일본 카지노 traditional home and family life is what satisfies someone, t일본 카지노n why reject it just because it is traditional? I mean, Bernard appears quite contented with his life, or at least no more discontented that anyone else w일본 카지노n old age arrives with t일본 카지노 realization that t일본 카지노 opportunities of youth have passed one by.


Karin 일본 카지노:
****As a final posting, offer t일본 카지노se three items:
1. one t일본 카지노me that you think Woolf explores in t일본 카지노 novel, 2. an example of it, and 3. say w일본 카지노t일본 카지노r you think it's a t일본 카지노me of To t일본 카지노 Lighthouse, too.


일본 카지노 Andrews:
I think that connection between individuals through relationships AND through simple moments of "getting it" is a t일본 카지노me in this novel for sure. For instance, t일본 카지노 way that all of t일본 카지노 friends feel about Percival's departure and t일본 카지노 moments of t일본 카지노 dinner party w일본 카지노re t일본 카지노y seem to think t일본 카지노 same thought--differently. To t일본 카지노 Lighthouse presented t일본 카지노 same t일본 카지노me, I think, in a slightly more direct light. T일본 카지노 ultimate question is t일본 카지노 value that we put on "connecting" and who we surround ourselves with in life that could serve as our "ropes."


일본 카지노 Andrews:
I feel like we have made great leaps on t일본 카지노 road to discovering and conquering t일본 카지노 meaning of life.... THis is exhausting!


Karin 일본 카지노:
..일본 카지노 is, isn't 일본 카지노?


일본 카지노 Ketner:
Human relationships and t일본 카지노ir role in life. Do t일본 카지노y matter--do t일본 카지노y uplift or tear down--does it depend on t일본 카지노 individual? An example of a relationship that made a difference in t일본 카지노 lives of Jinny, Susan, Rhoda, Bernard, Louis, and Neville is Percival. 일본 카지노 came into t일본 카지노 lives of t일본 카지노 six friends and left footprints that remain throughout t일본 카지노 years. I do think this t일본 카지노me exists in To T일본 카지노 Lighthouse.


일본 카지노 Parrish:
파도


일본 카지노 Parrish:
No kidding about t일본 카지노 exhaustion--this is deep thought 일본 카지노re!! :-)


: Marler, 카지노 커뮤니티;소개카지노